Activists' Community

hello!

Still feeling in NVR mode! : )
Nice to be experimenting here in ter Wende
Just had the first of the four sessions of 'NVR Parentgroup': four evenings where we talk about different aspects of new authority.
Wrote an announcement to one of the youngster to tell him we we're going to resist his agressive behaviour. He was so 'proud' about his letter that he wanted us to read it out loud to the other youngsters in our group, during our weekly groupmeeting (where all of them said that they had difficulties with the agressive behaviour of the boy, about two weeks ago - so our authority was based on these youngsters asking for support to deal with this kid - beautifull, no?). Especially the part where we said 'you're not alone, we will help you with this' made some of the other youngsters jalous : ) One girl said 'I also ant a letter like this' : )
Tomorrow we will plan an SMS (i'ts our teammeating then) so I'm very curious for that.
A short message to say that we are trilled with the NA vibes! Thanks a lot for that!
Greetings,
Ulla Adriaensens

Hello Ulla,

great to hear how your team is also in NVR mode. And what a nice mode to be in... In our team also the vibe is spreading and amazing with what speed. We tried allready a reparation act for the bullying in our group that was getting a bit to much, with an amazing effect on group dynamics. It has lead to a complete stop of mutual bullying, until today where one girl started again in a subtle way. But now she has received an SMS and was also invited to think about doing a reparation act with us towards the victim and it seemed to have an effect of relief on her.
So, just to say we completely share your enthousiasm and it's also great for me to hear how your team is experiencing it.
How did the SMS go with your team?

Kind regards,
Elfi

thanks for your respond, Elfi. You can read how it went in the posting above. Nice to hear also other experiments! And to be able to share it, I think it's not so difficult to get lost a little bit... It's kind of my task to gard the lines, since I'm the only one in my team who went to Israël. This is the same for you. It's not allways that easy, is it?
greetings,
Ulla

Hello everybody,

maybe you can all help me preparing the first supporters meeting I'll be doing.
I'm already amazed by the effect of writing the announcement on the father (single parent with a major depression). He's initiating, he's being creative in finding solutions and searching for accurate words. He has been able to see his child's feelings and behaviour as separate things. He's restarted his vigilant care (without mentioning this aspect specifically in treatment) towards his child. He says he feels stable and has remarkably changed in attitude! I can go on and on... and I do so towards him in complementing him (sometimes a compliment can already be accepted!).
But now we are planning a supporters meeting and he's quite sceptical about it (since the supporters are at the moment polarized in helpers for him and helpers, who devaluate him, for his child). There is little understanding for his past behaviour towards his child by the latter group.
The behaviour of the child is also not that extreme for others (yelling, sulking, also clinging behaviour in dangerous situations eg while cooking). This has progressively worsened. The father was able to annouce that clinging behaviour he can't accept when people say she has to stop. He externalized the yelling and sulking as "things" that prohibit him from helping her with her feelings when necessary (she is blocked in a morning for the death of her mother). He announced that he will resist those things prohibiting him from helping/understanding her and that he'll always be there for her.
He did the announcement together with a nurse from the ward. (the effect this has had on the ward I can write also a whole message on...but my children also need some presence, so I'm controlling myself).
So, I think I will start the supporters meeting with an overall explanation why we are there and let the father repeat his mission and then talk about the basic attitude (no control over and respect for the child, acting self control) and the need for support the strengthen the message of the father.Then I will have to see from there.
Are there other things I should think about? Does it matter where the meeting is? I find parents wanting to do it at their home (this is a possibility for us so I'm inclined to do so).
So since I'm a bit nervous I would appreciate some support in doing this first meeting.

Thanks in advance,
Elfi

Hi elfi
Reading your work with the father was really exciting. It had taught me once again the significant of NVR to families who find themselves alone needing to confront situations which cause distress and feelings of helpless and pain. It is now really late in Israel but tomorrow I would like to share with you some of my thoughts about how to manage the support meeting in your case.
Good night
Ishay

hi elfi and all,
In situations like you have described it is important that the father will feel secure and well protected by the therapist all along the support meeting. It is best that he will know that this is your duty and you will prepare him to the meeting. In the session before the meeting we talk with the parents about the structure of the meeting which last 90 min'.
A suggestion for how to conduct a support meetings:7 steps: 1)First we make a short acquaintance to get know all the participants and their relation to the child(we will make use of that information later on in tailoring the supporters rolls) . 2) We ask the parent to tell his story what had happen in the last months, and why is he asking for help nowadays(it is recommend that the therapist will think over with the parent which details he would like to tell) . In cases when there are participants who disagree or can devalued the parent it is impotent to address their complains in the story telling phase. For example the father can shed alight on the difficulties he and his son were dealing since the death of the mother. he can talk about his mistakes in the past not knowing how to deal with his son problems in times of distress and helplessness and his wish to rehabilitate his relation to his son first by amending his behavior – be more preset in his son's life and acting in NVR ways of actions when confronting with behavior problems. And in is effort to make a change and helping him and his son he has decided to try to recruit supporters, not working alone but as a group 3)presenting the child problems behavior - because of the risk of polarization I would advised to externalize the child problems behavior - to talk about our need to resist some of his behaviors that hearting him and his surroundings such as yelling, clinging behavior in dangerous situations and adding that although it isn’t major problems it is important to deal with them before escalation 4) the therapist represents the idea of support network and it's significant for the parent and for the child 5) opening the meeting for a discussion on the idea of support network – thoughts, feeling, doubts and ets. 6) Explaining the ways the supporters can make contact with the child 6) closing remarks. In the end we can ask who would like to be a supporter and what roll he feels right to take. 7) thanking all the participants in making the effort in coming to the meeting.

best of luck
ishay

Hello Ishay,

Thank you very much for the feedback. It was already usefull for another child whose support network for the family I saw. I will keep you all updated on the evolution of this specific support network gathering.
This forum really helps me strengthen my message.

Elfi.

Elfi hi
I just wanted to tell you that It is really great that we can share our experience, thoughts and knowledge
thanks
ishay

Hi once again,

Together with the educators we made an announcement for a girl of 10 years old.
During crises, she hurts educators (spitting, hair pulling, pushing, biting), she beats other children and she causes damage to the infrastructure (throwing chairs, breaking doors, pouring drink bottles on the floor or over clothes of educator,…) . She also uses bad words to insult people.

We put it in the announcement (We don't want you to hurt educators and other children anymore and we don't want you to cause damage to the things in the center.)

Now,the announcement was planned last week, but cancelled because 'the iron was not cold enough with one of the educators who was planning to do it). We rewrote the announcement and planned it for yesterday. Two educators tried to go in her room, but almost immediately, she ran away. This morning it was planned again, but the staff lost some motivation. They told me that "maybe this child is just too difficult to try NVR tools with, maybe we have to start with an easier case".

I was thinking that it is better to persevere and not to give up when it is difficult. Maybe to put a third one in the corridor, as advised with the W-SMS. But the team tells me that it is too difficult. They asked if one educator could do it, since she is not used to two adults coming in her room. They also asked if they could leave the letter in her room so that she can read it herself.
Could it be a good idea to ask a colleague of another team to do it, or to ask the head of the organization...

Getting some support from the forum, feels like the best action for me at this moment, because I feel resistance. And with some support, they could also feel that they are guided through it with the help of experience.

I also included the announcement. Feedback is more than welcome!


Best regards,

Annelies

Hello Annelies,

great to hear that you and your team are practicing with NVR like this. It's indeed a challenge to persevere and I find working like this stimulates everyones creativity to do so. So as you said, I think persevering is the key.
Putting a third educator in the ward was an idea I had also. I would also try triggering the girl's interest by, as you also suggested, asking one other member of the team (best someone who she doesn't see frequently) to do the announcement with an educator together. Or does she have a parent involved who shares the same concern, to ask to do it together with an educator?
If all else fails, I think I would suggest leaving the announcement (can she read? does it matter if she doesn't?) in the room after staying there a while with two people, maybe even reading it out loud (if she's in the corridor maybe she will hear some pieces).
Since the announcement is, as I understood, mostly an official declaration of commitment by the adult, making it mainly official for the adults themselves, this last suggestion is maybe a last resource?
I'm very curious about other ideas...

Many greetings,
Elfi

Thanks for this reply!
I'll discuss it with the team members and let you know.
Annelies

Hi Annelies,
I admir your perseverence and I think the ideas you had in terms of dealing with the many obstacles are excellent. THe announement is just a formal " declaration of intent", that the staff is united in resisting her destructive and harmful behavior, and its not a matter of how hard or easy a case is, on the contrary, we are often most effective with the hard cases! Remember, we don't need her cooperation in order to send the message that the behaviour is unnacceptable to all. I think using another collegue is a good idea since it reinforces the message that her behavior effects everyone and that the entire staff is united in resisting her negative behavior, also it neutralizes the more personal asects of the protest. Also, leaving the letter is also a possiblity, like elfi said, the announcement is more for the staff then for her.
Remember that the announment should be phrased in a way that the emphasis is on the intentions of the staff - like "we wil resist your hurtful behavior like when you hit other children or throw objects like chairs".
good luck and keep us updated!!!
michal

Hi Michal and others,

I took the reactions to my question on the forum along with me to the team meeting. It made the discussion very nice and interesting!
The team picked up motivation immediately and planned for a new trial!

This time it went all right.
Two social workers went into her room and started a bit of small talk. One unexpected difficulty came in though: another child entered the room and did not want to leave. The third one waiting in the corridor also came into the room to help. The girl insisted that she wanted the presence of her friend... Finally the other girl left.
When then, they wanted to read the letter out loud, the child ran away. So, as we discussed in the meeting, the two social workers stayed in the room and waited. The girl came back: "Leave my room...”. They decided to leave the letter in the room and left.

Against all predictions there was no crisis afterwards. They didn't see a letter torn into pieces or anything like that.
She also came to my office and asked me what it means that we will do things with the help of others. I told her that we can’t handle it alone, and that we will ask the advice of other people to get their opinion. If we have to become more strict on her, or if we have to be more sweet,... She answered me that she does all these things because she doesn't want to live in a center. I told her that we know that, and that we understand it, but that we don't agree with her aggressive way of showing it.
Her mother is now also more present in her life, which also plays a role.
And up to now, the crises drastically reduced!

Hi Annelies,
It sounds like everything went well (even the unexpected obstacles are "by the book"!). Just reading your description i could feel how determined the staff was so I can only imagine how the girl felt in the face of such a determined one-sided message! Its also great to hear that the mother has increased her presence in the girl's life. In short, thank you for updating us, its a nice way to start my morning :).
Have a lovely weekend and i hope the improvement continues!
michal

Dear ‘NA and NVR – parents’,
I still feel like a NVR and NA-child. But since the training, my enthusiasm still has grown: I want to become like my parents (and idols). I won’t repeat my feelings and ideas concerning the training because I did that yet by mail.
But I want to express my satisfaction about the forum. I read your questions and answers and it feels like I am a child, looking at a football match. I see it all happen on the forum and I think: “Yeah, that’s an interesting question!” And when I read the reactions, I think: “Woaw, why don’t have I this ideas???” And when I come ‘home’ (read: when I go to the families), I try to think and act like my Idols! Just like a child do. So, continue the ‘formumgame’!; I learn a lot from it (except my English)!!!
Thanks,
Joost Devolder,
Foster care worker

Thanks to you, Joost! I really miss your roleplay talent! Can you come up for a visit just to play with Hendrik so we can watch it? This would be great!

Byebye : )

Hi,
I wanted to ask someting about the therapeutic effect of measuring instruments in the Schneiders hospital.
I heard many lecturers talking about questionnaires to measure differences before and after the treatment. I was wondering if these instruments could be of an extra value in therapeutic terms?
Also because it seems to be hard to convince parents of the successfull side of an announcement or a sit in.
Could a measuring instrument help parents or educators to see progress even if very little?
I am inspired by the work of Scott Miller and am curious to read about the idea of your team,
thanks in advance,
Annelies

That is an excellent question:
The concept of measuring as a therapeutic technique has been of interest to a number of thinkers. Measuring can have a number of useful impacts:
1. It helps to prioritize and focus the issues that demand the most attention.
2. As you mentioned it allow both therapist and patient to see progress (or not) and offer a quantifiable measure of change, which in turn can create hope and motivation.
3. It can create a "distance from the problem" - the possibility to see myself as distinct from the issues which I am looking at measuring.
In CBT measuring things such as distress and anxiety are extremely well used to allow the patient to achieve a sense of control.
While we do not explicitly use measuring as an intervention I think these factors are often at play in our work.
Eli

As I mentioned in the opening speech of the training Eli could not participate in the training since he is now involved in research concerning his post-doctorate at Yale University. Although I still think it was a mistake to leave Israel and our team in order to join an unfamiliar and esoteric place like Yale we know we can't control his acts… From an NVR perspective Elis' involvement in this forum will serve for us as a reparation act for his betrayal ;-)

More than that as well as I'm sure that the training could be much better if Eli was there, I'm sure all the team will agree that this forum will be significantly better with Elis' contributions in it.

So – welcome Eli!
Idan

Hello everybody,

since the training, everything has been going fast. It astonishes me how fast my teammembers (nurses, psychologists, teaching staff) are starting to talk in terms of "we", presence and resistance and how they are finding a different stance, less controlling, in relation to parents and children and each other. The community of the ward is clearly in a changing process and everybody likes it!
Having been to the training, I was also invited to report to the other child psychiatrists, psychologists and other therapists from our departement about the training. One question that rose was "how does NA and NVR relate to different cultural perspectives" ( the exact question was: "what happens when cultural norms and values are not in line with what we deem necessary for this child?").
I was a bit dazzled by this question, because my instinct tells me, since NA is about the universal bond between child and parent it surmounts cultural values (So I could only formulate the following answer: every parent wants, and has the right, to be present in the life of his/her child and opting in to NVR means learning selfcontrol, seeking support and respecting the child, so I think this is important for children no matter what the cultural values of the family are).
But it made me wonder, does anybody have experience with NVR in different cultures and are there limits?

Kind regards,
Elfi.

Hi,

I think that 'culture' is too much portrayed as a stereotype.
I also think that such questions as mentioned in the message of Elfi, are so difficult to answer, cause it needs a lot of thinking. Why this question? Is there another question that underlies it? Is there a frustration that joins it?...
Such questions make me think hard!
It seems to me that the idea could be that 'other than Western cultures' are always authoritarian.
The more I meet with people from around the world, the less I see the stereotypes in them, in their lives, in their stories, in their educational styles,...

I think it is important to define the impact of culture, the impact of social economic standard, of education, gender roles, of social background, of intergenerational beliefs and history, of personality, of the temperament of the children involved and of the availability of social support- before we conclude general things about cultures.
This question also involves in my eyes a static definition of culture. I'd like to bring in the dynamic perspective in culture.
When we stereotype, we will not get access to the particular kind of family life that maybe needs our support. I also think that involving the social network could be a very important step in seeing the dynamics of culture. One family can not show it on its own. When a group talks, you see the rich life of cultures.

I would even think that the common background and inspiration of international heroes like Ghandi and Mandela are a nice and shared starting point. As well as the critic on the permissive-liberal parenting style on the one hand, and the critic on the authoritarian style on the other hand. In many conversations with parents from other cultures the critics on the permissive-liberal parenting style is expressed, as well as the critic on the parental blaming culture, and the lack of social support and loneliness. The need for something else could be universal.
I offered to give a workshop to members of the federation of African organizations in Belgium because I think this theory could be warmly welcomed. I'll update you in this forum ;)

Of course, I really recognize the hard work that sometimes goes together with meeting people from other cultures: overcoming the differences and finding the things that people unite. I think the NVR and NA could be something that can unite us, as Elfi also wrote in her message.

lots of greetings,
Annelies

Thank you Annelies for your answer. I'm glad to hear about the workshop to members of the federation of African organizations. I'd even like to add that I have already talked about the NVR and NA concept with one father with African backgrounds. He was very enthousiastic. The concept of support network felt very natural to him and he felt strengthened in his parenting by just hearing of the concept. It is of course just one father and this can not be generalized, but it made me believe further in NA (as every contact with parents does using this stance, theory and practice).
I'm curious to hear about the feedback you will get when you have presented this.

Many greetings,
Elfi